The numbers are looking bleak for some of your favorites.
Michael Jackson – Michael (225k-250k)
R. Kelly – Love Letter (150k-160k)
Diddy Dirty Money – Last Train To Paris (60-65k)
Tank – Now Or Never (40k-45k)
Ciara – Basic Instinct (35k-40k)
Good for R.Kelly, he deserves it and has always put out great quality R&B music. Ciara, well...at least she sold better then Soulja Boy. Even Keri Hilson's promotion was 10x better then Ciara. Jive records doesn't give a fuck about Ciara as one of their main acts is B.Spears, hopefully they'll drop Ciara after this so she can start over with new management and promote her right, bitch is a great entertainer. Her performance on Ellen the other day was sick!!
Daaaamn, the females in R&B just getting knocked off one by one in 2010, huh? Hope Ciara got her resume in order and remembers her CareerBuilder login!
I don't like Diddy AT ALL but I keep hearing that Last Train to Paris is low-key dope. Maybe I'll get that on the free.99 site.
Those Ciara numbers are very incorrect because I know of 35K people on twitter who bought the fucking album and tweeted proof, so that means only twitter heads are buying the album?? Fuck them haters...I predict 100K for my girl
I've got no ill feelings towards Ciara (except for her lyin' 'bout Fiddy hittin' that on the regular) which is a non-issue - so I'm gonna have to ride with Creole on this and hope that Ci Ci gets some love on this album..I won't be buying however - not my cup of tea, but whateva's cleva.
I'm really disappointed by those Dirty Money numbers. The album was hotttttt, way better than Kelz, and I cannot believe it didn't move over 100k units?! WTH?! Don't get me wrong, R.Kelly has a nice album too, I was excited as hell to purchase both Last Train and Love Letter, but Dirty MOney's album is BY FAR better than Kelz?! I'm hoping people over look their hatred for Diddy and actually support the group, it's raw talent, great production, and the lyrics are dope.
As for Ciara, *sigh*, lmao...that girl needs Jazzy Pha and a prayer. Let's hope that this SECOND flop will be enough for homegirl to humble herself and crawl back to Jazzy Pha and her old mgmt team. I seriously don't understand it, why do artist constantly distance themselves from producers/managments that gave them their biggest hits? I remember JD was talking about this on youtube too, he was saying how he gave MC and Ursh their biggest hits yet they've distance themselves alway from collabo'ing w/ him on their LP's. Same goes for Janet and her old management/producers Terry and the otha dude, lol...well...I'm looking forward to Keyshia's album, now that's gonna be siiick
Hits Daily Double is usually off by 10K or so, so to say Ciara sold 100K when they predict 35K is reaching. Sorry y'all, this girl is finished. Look for that announcement about her being dropped from her label next week. She had a nice lil' gimmick going with the round-the-way girl from the A thing going on, but everybody has their season. Point blank, it wasn't a good year to be a female in R&B at all unless your name was Sade, Rihanna or Monica. Keri Hilson gon' flop hard next week and, dare I say it, it ain't looking too good for Keyshia Cole either.
My pre-ordered Kelly is on the way, and I can't wait, he's the only Artist I legally buy every time. He's the only male RnB star left that tells a coherent, thought-out story (oh' the 90's) in their song and doesn't fill majority of the song up with simple chorus type lyrics and some random like my sex, money,Jets and cars bullsh!t (cough* soulja boy,ciara, Nelly) Ciara ain't been gone long enough and she looks awkward in female clothes and shoes.....Sherees hairdresser from Atlanta Housewives rocks female clothes better.
Dirty Money would be a hot group if it was like Fabolous, Amerie and maybe Teairra Mari instead of washed-up azz Diddy and two unknowns. It was a nice concept, just bad execution.
Love Kelly's album; this was the first CD i have purchased in the last 6 years and so worth it. the music biz is not what it use to be, people are not buying music the way they use to. alot of this stuff thats out is not worth the money any way so can u blame people?
co-sign @ 12:46, R.Kelly's album is hot and i'm so happy he released something that isn't oversaturated with sexual content. I can literally play and WANT to listen to every song without skipping anything. I love and appreciate when an artist shows their real vocal talent and Robert definitely did his damn thing with this one.
The only two artist on this list I cared about were MJ and R.Kelly. I got both cd's and I like them. Say what you want about them but don't say they don't have talent. R.Kelly is my dude. I hope they put out old MJ songs from the 70',80's and 90's. Those were his best years
Ciara should do an album with her twin Wanda Sykes to boost sales in the lesbian community at least. Side A - 8 tracks of Ciara doing her best Aliyah impersonation. Side B - 8 tracks of recycled comedy from Wanda.
i find it hard to believe that child molester R.kelly is still selling that amount. No body is really checking for that weirdo
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LOL Kelly is an amazing artist and been around for two decades now. A lot of people are stil checking for his music cause he still puts out great music.
Damn. Some of y'all putting cash into the hands of man who urinated on an underaged and probably mentally slow young girl?!? WOW. Some women will accept anything if the man has fame and money. Robert Kelly should have sold 0 units.
Michael's album was the only one I was checking for and let me just say, that he is somewhere turning in his grave! That album is garbage. If michael was alive he would never had released that album. Those songs are so out dated and wack, and on some of them it doesn't even sound like Michael! Those songs were unreleased for a reason! Im so sick of people trying to make money off of this man. Akon talking about "micheal would have wanted this"..... Really?! If that's the case then why didn't he realese these songs when he was still alive.
Poor cici she cant ever seem to get it right... Oh well! And as for r.Kelly he and his music are garbage. I wouldn't take his cd even if someone gave it to me for free! I will never support that pedophile for two reasons 1) uhh... He's a pedophile! Not only that but he was never punished nor did he ever take responsibility for what he did. 2) all of his albums are the same. How many ways can you sing about sexing someone up? I wish he would just go away.
Ciara is different then how she was when she first came out (she had hips), and i don't think many people like the change. I think she's just trying too hard now... oh well...
Cici only got any shine because we missed Aaliyah. It's saying something when a dead person sells more than people that can still fine tune their work. Akon sucks and I'm embarrassed Sony would let him work on MJ's music.
Any true mj fan knows that michael was a perfectionist, he wanted every last song on his albums to be 100% which is why all his previous pieces of works were classic. Mj would would have never stood behind this new album! His label is once aging trying to make a quick buck off this mans name! Those songs on his new album are nowhere near classic mj good at all. Michael would definitely NOT approve!
You people are sad pathetic fucking souls.. I hope someone pisses on your daughter and records it!!! What kind of person will support a fucking child molester as if nothing happened?? I wouldn't piss in Kelly's direction if that bitch was blazing like the Mexican sun.. You assholes are the same ones that would befriend a person that killed your mom, all because they have a nice car!! I swear Black people are so fucking ignorant!!!!
@ 1:42 and 4:15 Kellz was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.. You think White people werent cheering when those cops who beat R.King were acquitted, or the guy who was shot 50 times on the night before his wedding in NY, or when the BART copy was acquitted of 1st degree murder of an unarmed black man in Oakland?
GTFOH with that foolishness. You DAMN RIGHT I CHEERED WHEN OJ WAS ACQUITTED, WHEN OBAMA WAS ELECTED, WHEN MIKE JACKSON BEAT HIS CHARGES AND WHEN MIKE VICK THREW HIS 1ST TOUCHDOWN OUT OF PRISON....
@7:03 PM Lol! You got a point everyone roots for their own if their wrong. I know many white people who hate Oj just for the fact that he killed two white people and got away with it. I had a white friend who was very honest with me and said if Ron and Nicole were black or hispanic they wouldn't care as much.
Not surprised. who the fuck wants to hear Cecil yoddling on a damn album while he vogues in stilleto nikes? Sweating so profusely the duct tape holding down his dick and ballsack comes a loose and has his jank floppin out all over the place. Fuck Cecil..I mean ciara.
@ 7:03- Then you're one of the ignorant ones we're talking about. Sorry. I cheered when Obama was elected. I was mad when Micheal Vick went to prison for dog fighting and I thought Micheal Jackson got away with child molestation charges. See, it's possible to be black and judge things/people on a case by case basis. It's people like you who have folks thinking black jurors can't be impartial and thinking we all voted for Obama, just because he's black. Some of us are actually capable of thinking independently and looking past skin color. Just because ignorant whites root for their own, regardless of the situation, does not mean we have to. Be better than them.
Oh and 7:03, lots of people are found "not guilty" by a jury of their peers...including whites who raped and murdered black people in cold blood....your point? Forget what a jury says, do you think he's guilty?
@3:48 PM I feel Mick Vick should have went to jail so I was happy about that. As far as Mj and R.Kelly . . . I still have mixed feelings. Yet, I do think Oj is guilty as sin. Innocent people don't write book about killing they wife. Thats crazy
@3:48 i didnt vote for Obama because he was black idiot.. I voted on the things he stood for and wanted to change... Ignorant.. I think not... How did MJ get away with molestation? Did you not see in the news that the boy who took him to trial lied about the entire thing and that his dad was on tape braqging about setting MJ up.. GTFOH...
@9:53 You stupid... how in the hell MV deserves to go to jail but you have the BART officer who shot the unarmed man in Oakland get sentenced to 1-3 years... Now your comment was ignorant..
@3:38 For you to generalize an entire race is ignorant..Black people arent the only one who are presumed to not be impartial when it comes to jury duty... You think an all white jury or a jury thats majority white will be impartial all the time? Just ask the guy James Byrd who was dragged to death behind a pick up truck in Texas by a white man and ask the jury who sentenced that white man were they impartial.
And furthermore rather I think he is guilty or not doesnt mean shit if the jury acquitted him... My thoughts arent going to put him in jail.. It would be just my opinion..
@12:26 (3:48 here)- You need to work on reading comprehension before calling anyone "idiot". "i didnt vote for Obama because he was black idiot"- Who said you did? Read what I said, then process it.
I'm not going to argue with you on the MJ case(s). If you feel comfortable having YOUR child sleep in the same bed with a 40 year-old man, cool. MY OPINION IS, he got away with child molestation.
What does the BART case have to do with MV's case???
I didn't "generalize an entire race". Read my comment, again. What I'm saying is...your comment about cheering when OJ was acquitted (when you probably think he's guilty of murdering 2 people in cold blood)and saying R Kelly was found "not guilty" (when you know he's on videotape committing the crime) leads OTHERS to generalize and say WE can't be impartial (WHICH IS TOTALLY UN-TRUE). Once again...yes, there are white people who can't be impartial and are ignorant, but we don't have to stoop to their level. The problem is, white people still run the criminal justice system. So, unfortunately, racist, prejudice, partial whites get picked for juries and blacks on the other hand are not picked, because they say "they'll just find him "not guilty" because he's black". All I'm saying is, don't be a stereotype.
No hun you need to focus on reading comprehension because you just agreed to and stated exactly what I said about white people and them being biased...
The reason I referenced the BART case and the MV case because someone stated that they believe MV should have went to jail ( for killing dogs) but then they are undecided on the other cases ... And you did generalize the black race when you stated " that we cant be unbiased while on a jury"
Like I said earlier regardless what you think or how YOU FEEL ABOUT THE aforementioned individuals they were found INNOCENT by a jury of their peers.. Im sure the jury saw the same evidence we saw ( the tape ,the allegations of MJ sleeping in the same bed with kids, blood evidence) but it was something that made them acquit those people... So no matter what you think or how you feel, your opinion doesnt matter because in the eyes of the law they are INNOCENT..
P.S. Im done with this subject but i thank you for engaging in intelligent dialogue...
56 comments:
Good for R.Kelly, he deserves it and has always put out great quality R&B music. Ciara, well...at least she sold better then Soulja Boy. Even Keri Hilson's promotion was 10x better then Ciara. Jive records doesn't give a fuck about Ciara as one of their main acts is B.Spears, hopefully they'll drop Ciara after this so she can start over with new management and promote her right, bitch is a great entertainer. Her performance on Ellen the other day was sick!!
Daaaamn, the females in R&B just getting knocked off one by one in 2010, huh? Hope Ciara got her resume in order and remembers her CareerBuilder login!
I don't like Diddy AT ALL but I keep hearing that Last Train to Paris is low-key dope. Maybe I'll get that on the free.99 site.
R. Kelly got a nice lil' comeback I see.
I know Sony is mad about them MJ numbers.
Didn't even know Tank had an album out.
I'm still laughing at kevin hart ass in the hair on fire video
I think its very telling when more people will support R Kelly over the rest of the artists listed...
Those Ciara numbers are very incorrect because I know of 35K people on twitter who bought the fucking album and tweeted proof, so that means only twitter heads are buying the album?? Fuck them haters...I predict 100K for my girl
I've got no ill feelings towards Ciara (except for her lyin' 'bout Fiddy hittin' that on the regular) which is a non-issue - so I'm gonna have to ride with Creole on this and hope that Ci Ci gets some love on this album..I won't be buying however - not my cup of tea, but whateva's cleva.
I'm really disappointed by those Dirty Money numbers. The album was hotttttt, way better than Kelz, and I cannot believe it didn't move over 100k units?! WTH?! Don't get me wrong, R.Kelly has a nice album too, I was excited as hell to purchase both Last Train and Love Letter, but Dirty MOney's album is BY FAR better than Kelz?! I'm hoping people over look their hatred for Diddy and actually support the group, it's raw talent, great production, and the lyrics are dope.
As for Ciara, *sigh*, lmao...that girl needs Jazzy Pha and a prayer. Let's hope that this SECOND flop will be enough for homegirl to humble herself and crawl back to Jazzy Pha and her old mgmt team. I seriously don't understand it, why do artist constantly distance themselves from producers/managments that gave them their biggest hits? I remember JD was talking about this on youtube too, he was saying how he gave MC and Ursh their biggest hits yet they've distance themselves alway from collabo'ing w/ him on their LP's. Same goes for Janet and her old management/producers Terry and the otha dude, lol...well...I'm looking forward to Keyshia's album, now that's gonna be siiick
And soon they will need day jobs..
Hoodrat: Ummmmmm, ya got ciarra cd?
Walmart employee: Yes maam.
Hoodrat: where at? patt's weave.
Walmart employee: U see that 99cent bin to your left?
Hoodrat: my wat? oh ummmmmmmmmm, yeah.
Walmart employee: right there.
Hits Daily Double is usually off by 10K or so, so to say Ciara sold 100K when they predict 35K is reaching. Sorry y'all, this girl is finished. Look for that announcement about her being dropped from her label next week. She had a nice lil' gimmick going with the round-the-way girl from the A thing going on, but everybody has their season. Point blank, it wasn't a good year to be a female in R&B at all unless your name was Sade, Rihanna or Monica. Keri Hilson gon' flop hard next week and, dare I say it, it ain't looking too good for Keyshia Cole either.
My pre-ordered Kelly is on the way, and I can't wait, he's the only Artist I legally buy every time. He's the only male RnB star left that tells a coherent, thought-out story (oh' the 90's) in their song and doesn't fill majority of the song up with simple chorus type lyrics and some random like my sex, money,Jets and cars bullsh!t (cough* soulja boy,ciara, Nelly)
Ciara ain't been gone long enough and she looks awkward in female clothes and shoes.....Sherees hairdresser from Atlanta Housewives rocks female clothes better.
Dirty Money would be a hot group if it was like Fabolous, Amerie and maybe Teairra Mari instead of washed-up azz Diddy and two unknowns. It was a nice concept, just bad execution.
At least she did more that Souljah Boy's 13,000 copies. lol
Lol y'all still think Nicki's 371,000 first week sales was a flop?!
pedophile
pedophile
homosexual
homosexual
untalented
Love Kelly's album; this was the first CD i have purchased in the last 6 years and so worth it. the music biz is not what it use to be, people are not buying music the way they use to. alot of this stuff thats out is not worth the money any way so can u blame people?
lol @ 12:35
co-sign @ 12:46, R.Kelly's album is hot and i'm so happy he released something that isn't oversaturated with sexual content. I can literally play and WANT to listen to every song without skipping anything. I love and appreciate when an artist shows their real vocal talent and Robert definitely did his damn thing with this one.
Nice cover shot. The all seeing eye is undoubtedly proud.
Gone are the days of million sales in the first day. 500k on a month is doing extremely well.
The only two artist on this list I cared about were MJ and R.Kelly. I got both cd's and I like them. Say what you want about them but don't say they don't have talent. R.Kelly is my dude. I hope they put out old MJ songs from the 70',80's and 90's. Those were his best years
i find it hard to believe that child molester R.kelly is still selling that amount. No body is really checking for that weirdo.
Ciara should do an album with her twin Wanda Sykes to boost sales in the lesbian community at least. Side A - 8 tracks of Ciara doing her best Aliyah impersonation. Side B - 8 tracks of recycled comedy from Wanda.
Cici with one eye covered...even the illuminati can't help her non-singing *ss
Damn this is a shame see CICI you need to go back to where you came from.
i find it hard to believe that child molester R.kelly is still selling that amount. No body is really checking for that weirdo
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LOL Kelly is an amazing artist and been around for two decades now. A lot of people are stil checking for his music cause he still puts out great music.
I am checking for R.Kelly!!!
"Love Letter" is the sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roman Polanski puts out great movies, too. It's amazing how entertainers get a pass, if they're super talented.
cosign 5:13 & 12:35. i wouldn't download a free r.kelly's CD if someone offered me $ to do it.
Damn. Some of y'all putting cash into the hands of man who urinated on an underaged and probably mentally slow young girl?!? WOW. Some women will accept anything if the man has fame and money. Robert Kelly should have sold 0 units.
Michael's album was the only one I was checking for and let me just say, that he is somewhere turning in his grave! That album is garbage. If michael was alive he would never had released that album. Those songs are so out dated and wack, and on some of them it doesn't even sound like Michael! Those songs were unreleased for a reason! Im so sick of people trying to make money off of this man. Akon talking about "micheal would have wanted this"..... Really?! If that's the case then why didn't he realese these songs when he was still alive.
Poor cici she cant ever seem to get it right... Oh well! And as for r.Kelly he and his music are garbage. I wouldn't take his cd even if someone gave it to me for free! I will never support that pedophile for two reasons 1) uhh... He's a pedophile! Not only that but he was never punished nor did he ever take responsibility for what he did. 2) all of his albums are the same. How many ways can you sing about sexing someone up? I wish he would just go away.
Ciara is different then how she was when she first came out (she had hips), and i don't think many people like the change. I think she's just trying too hard now... oh well...
I'm going to go to Target and pull out my penis and piss on all those cds expect for Michael Jackson cd....oh fuck it i'm gonna piss his cd too!
Lil Chris
Cici only got any shine because we missed Aaliyah. It's saying something when a dead person sells more than people that can still fine tune their work. Akon sucks and I'm embarrassed Sony would let him work on MJ's music.
@6:49 PM Really? I like MJ's cd. It's not as good as his early work but It's good. Monster, Hold My Hand, and The Way You Love Me are the best songs.
@5:13 PM Roman Polanski ass raped that child in the 70's. It's not the same as R.Kelly
Didn't she have an album out last year that went no where?
@11:55 AM Hahahah LMAO
Any true mj fan knows that michael was a perfectionist, he wanted every last song on his albums to be 100% which is why all his previous pieces of works were classic. Mj would would have never stood behind this new album! His label is once aging trying to make a quick buck off this mans name! Those songs on his new album are nowhere near classic mj good at all. Michael would definitely NOT approve!
11:24PM - Speak on it
@11:51 PM- Does this make him less of a pedophile? Did you not get my point?
You people are sad pathetic fucking souls.. I hope someone pisses on your daughter and records it!!! What kind of person will support a fucking child molester as if nothing happened?? I wouldn't piss in Kelly's direction if that bitch was blazing like the Mexican sun.. You assholes are the same ones that would befriend a person that killed your mom, all because they have a nice car!! I swear Black people are so fucking ignorant!!!!
@1:42- They're also the same ones who cheered when OJ The Killer was found "not guilty".
http://conversations.blackvoices.com/entertainment/99435682aaea4564b24369ed6fc90973/man-officially-cure%20.../d929376a7e384c52a39e930388e71543
@ 1:42 and 4:15 Kellz was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.. You think White people werent cheering when those cops who beat R.King were acquitted, or the guy who was shot 50 times on the night before his wedding in NY, or when the BART copy was acquitted of 1st degree murder of an unarmed black man in Oakland?
GTFOH with that foolishness. You DAMN RIGHT I CHEERED WHEN OJ WAS ACQUITTED, WHEN OBAMA WAS ELECTED, WHEN MIKE JACKSON BEAT HIS CHARGES AND WHEN MIKE VICK THREW HIS 1ST TOUCHDOWN OUT OF PRISON....
@7:03 PM Lol! You got a point everyone roots for their own if their wrong. I know many white people who hate Oj just for the fact that he killed two white people and got away with it. I had a white friend who was very honest with me and said if Ron and Nicole were black or hispanic they wouldn't care as much.
Not surprised. who the fuck wants to hear Cecil yoddling on a damn album while he vogues in stilleto nikes? Sweating so profusely the duct tape holding down his dick and ballsack comes a loose and has his jank floppin out all over the place. Fuck Cecil..I mean ciara.
@ 7:03- Then you're one of the ignorant ones we're talking about. Sorry. I cheered when Obama was elected. I was mad when Micheal Vick went to prison for dog fighting and I thought Micheal Jackson got away with child molestation charges. See, it's possible to be black and judge things/people on a case by case basis. It's people like you who have folks thinking black jurors can't be impartial and thinking we all voted for Obama, just because he's black. Some of us are actually capable of thinking independently and looking past skin color. Just because ignorant whites root for their own, regardless of the situation, does not mean we have to. Be better than them.
Oh and 7:03, lots of people are found "not guilty" by a jury of their peers...including whites who raped and murdered black people in cold blood....your point? Forget what a jury says, do you think he's guilty?
@3:48 PM I feel Mick Vick should have went to jail so I was happy about that. As far as Mj and R.Kelly . . . I still have mixed feelings. Yet, I do think Oj is guilty as sin. Innocent people don't write book about killing they wife. Thats crazy
@3:48 i didnt vote for Obama because he was black idiot.. I voted on the things he stood for and wanted to change... Ignorant.. I think not... How did MJ get away with molestation? Did you not see in the news that the boy who took him to trial lied about the entire thing and that his dad was on tape braqging about setting MJ up.. GTFOH...
@9:53 You stupid... how in the hell MV deserves to go to jail but you have the BART officer who shot the unarmed man in Oakland get sentenced to 1-3 years... Now your comment was ignorant..
@3:38 For you to generalize an entire race is ignorant..Black people arent the only one who are presumed to not be impartial when it comes to jury duty... You think an all white jury or a jury thats majority white will be impartial all the time? Just ask the guy James Byrd who was dragged to death behind a pick up truck in Texas by a white man and ask the jury who sentenced that white man were they impartial.
And furthermore rather I think he is guilty or not doesnt mean shit if the jury acquitted him... My thoughts arent going to put him in jail.. It would be just my opinion..
@12:26 (3:48 here)- You need to work on reading comprehension before calling anyone "idiot".
"i didnt vote for Obama because he was black idiot"- Who said you did? Read what I said, then process it.
I'm not going to argue with you on the MJ case(s). If you feel comfortable having YOUR child sleep in the same bed with a 40 year-old man, cool. MY OPINION IS, he got away with child molestation.
What does the BART case have to do with MV's case???
I didn't "generalize an entire race". Read my comment, again. What I'm saying is...your comment about cheering when OJ was acquitted (when you probably think he's guilty of murdering 2 people in cold blood)and saying R Kelly was found "not guilty" (when you know he's on videotape committing the crime) leads OTHERS to generalize and say WE can't be impartial (WHICH IS TOTALLY UN-TRUE). Once again...yes, there are white people who can't be impartial and are ignorant, but we don't have to stoop to their level. The problem is, white people still run the criminal justice system. So, unfortunately, racist, prejudice, partial whites get picked for juries and blacks on the other hand are not picked, because they say "they'll just find him "not guilty" because he's black". All I'm saying is, don't be a stereotype.
No hun you need to focus on reading comprehension because you just agreed to and stated exactly what I said about white people and them being biased...
The reason I referenced the BART case and the MV case because someone stated that they believe MV should have went to jail ( for killing dogs) but then they are undecided on the other cases ... And you did generalize the black race when you stated " that we cant be unbiased while on a jury"
Like I said earlier regardless what you think or how YOU FEEL ABOUT THE aforementioned individuals they were found INNOCENT by a jury of their peers.. Im sure the jury saw the same evidence we saw ( the tape ,the allegations of MJ sleeping in the same bed with kids, blood evidence) but it was something that made them acquit those people... So no matter what you think or how you feel, your opinion doesnt matter because in the eyes of the law they are INNOCENT..
P.S. Im done with this subject but i thank you for engaging in intelligent dialogue...
"P.S. Im done with this subject but i thank you for engaging in intelligent dialogue..."
^^^Ditto
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